She Found her Song in her Darkest Hour. Betrayal, Forgiveness & the Joy of Victory!

Hear from this Singing Hippie, Gail McFarland and about her colorful life during The Jesus Movement in Hollywood. How she lost her Rock Star Pastoral status because of her husband admitting to a public affair with one of the 600 singles they ministered to under Dr. Jack Hayford, (Gail's Spiritual Father). 

After life came crashing down, how did she find hope as a single mama of an infant and deal with the death of her 2nd husband after a 16 year marriage?

Gail calls herself a Happy Failure.  Many will call this humble woman a spiritual mother to many. 

Connect with Gail McFarland at gail.mcfarland@gmail.com.

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Transcript

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Hello and thank you for joining us on Heavenly Hookups. I'm here with Gail McFarland, my guest, and I'm just so excited about the wealth of information that this lady has lived in her lifetime. She has worked under Dr. Jack Hayford. She had a young adults group that she ministered to, for about 600 people. This beautiful woman is a wealth of information and I can't wait for you all to hear from her about all the troubles and the triumphs that she encountered. Her husband had a public affair in Dr. Jack Hayford's ministry, then she had to raise her daughter by herself. She was blessed with a second marriage for 16 years. I'm excited that, Gail, that you're here and that you can tell us all about, your life and your experiences and what you think would be most helpful. Thank you, Camille, thank you. It's a pleasure to be able to share these stories. We go through really hard things, and I've had the Lord say at times, I know this is hard. There was no escape hatch. It was just really hard. But the victory beyond it, the ability to overcome and not just survive, but thrive. And I think that's part of my story. So I, I married a young man who was preparing for ministry and we were high school youth pastors at the Church on the Way, which is Dr. Jack Hayford, who recently passed away. And he was my spiritual father and my first husband and I were kind of like the golden couple. Even great things planned for this wonderfully anointed couple and we'd lead worship with our guitars and blah, blah. I really enjoyed the celebrity of being on pastoral staff later on, we lived in Israel for four years and survived a war, but that's another story. Oh my. Probably a book. We came back to pastor, the singles department, which was about 600 people. That's where, now listen, we're close to Hollywood there. This is Tinsel Town out there in Los Angeles. And so they treat pastors like celebrities. And I gotta tell you, I really enjoyed that. Yeah, I bet. One of the things I called myself is a recovering pharisee. I know. I love that. I'm actually glad that things happened to me to completely dismantle my paradigm. My paradigm of life was if I do everything right, everything turns out okay. And what do you know it didn't. And my paradigm came crashing down around my ears when my husband had an affair with one of the single women. She eventually repented, but he didn't. And he just, went further and further away divorced me. And here my life was in shambles and it was very public. Because there were about 10 to 15,000 people at the church at that time. So everybody knew. Wow. What had happened. And one day I'm gonna share this because I think it's one of the most powerful things that could have happened to me. He left when she was 11 months old and I'd put her down for a nap and I just slumped to the floor in the living room. And I thought to my, I was just utterly depressed. I'm sure. And, I imagined myself before the Lord at the great judgment or whatever, and said, oh Jesus, I'm so sorry I never amounted to anything. But Mark destroyed my life. I expected sympathy. Yeah. I didn't get it. The Lord looked at me. This is Jesus. It was like I saw his eyes, he looked at me with great intensity. And said, nothing can destroy your life unless you let it. Wow. That's powerful. And I realized in that moment, I had some very serious decisions to make. I could still fulfill my destiny. Nothing can stop. Now, obviously I've gotta survive. I'm gonna have to move cause we were in a pastoral house. There all kinds of convolutions to life. I gotta get a job. And I haven't worked in a few years, but it was just extraordinary because I expected him to go, I know honey. That's okay. Yeah. And he didn't, he was like, come on, give me a little sympathy here. But working through it I eventually thrived. That was probably the biggest thing to set me on a path for my future of thriving. But there was another one about three years later and I was dealing with stuff. I was forgiving him. And forgiveness, let me just say, forgiveness is a process. Yeah. And if anybody's listening and you've been through horrible trauma, you have to do it and keep doing it. And I said, Lord, I forgive him in your name, but please work that into my heart. And he did. And I went through lots of healing. The other thing is, therapy's great, but I couldn't afford it. And I thought, I can't imagine the Lord going, oh gee, kid, I wish I could help you, but you don't have the money. It's okay, it's you and me. Jesus. Yeah. You be my therapist. You take me through this. So about three or four years later, I'm working, my daughter is in childcare, which broke my heart. I had to put her in full-time daycare at 18 months. And one morning in my quiet time with the Lord, he said, do you want him to know what he did? And I thought, now that's a trick question. He knows what he did. Yeah. And he did it anyway. He even told me that. And I went, I gotta think about this. What are we talking about here? So I thought through all of the implications, all of the people that were hurt, our own destinies changed the ramifications for so many lives and the ramifications of my life and my daughter's life. And I thought, Lord, if you really showed him everything, I don't think he could take it. He might commit suicide. I'm not sure he could handle knowing. And then I thought, you know what? You've never told me everything I've ever done. And I suddenly realized that not only did Jesus die, because we couldn't bear the penalty for our sin, we can't even bear the weight of the knowledge of it. And in that moment I said, no, Lord, I don't want him to know what he did, all of what he did. And I release him from ever knowing. And that right there was my release. Wow. I don't know what it did for him, but that was my release. I released him from my judgment of him. I released him from ever knowing all of the ramifications of his great sin and the betrayal. And it mean it's huge when you've been betrayed. And especially at a time in my life when I needed somebody more than I'd ever needed anybody, I had a tiny baby. I was still brain dead. You know the baby brain? Just it was horrible. Yeah. And yet what that release of him and that full forgiveness, I was able later to look at him eyeball and to eyeball and say, I love you. And he got tears in his eyes. He said, I know I love you too. Huh? He eventually asked my forgiveness probably about, 12 to 15 years later. He said, I'm so sorry for what I put you through. Will you forgive me? But I didn't require it. And when you go through something like that, you can't expect it. And it's the one thing that people who have been victimized in any way, their deepest desire is that the perpetrator would really know what they did. So that's just, that has been a very powerful lesson in my life. And I honestly believe that is what enabled me to thrive. I was then involved in singles again and public speaking that sort of thing. And then I met my second husband, and we were married for 16 years, and he died suddenly. You're like, Lord. I'm sorry. It's not funny, but I'm chuckling because of the joy of victory. Yeah. The joy of overcoming divorce and death. And when we finally pulled the plug on him, it's a longer story, but one of the gals said aren't you angry? Why aren't you angry? And I said I really do trust that my heavenly father loves me. And in that moment I thought, I really do. I never went through the stages of anger that therapists will tell you need to go through. Yeah. And one of them is anger, skipped it. Never went through that stage. You go through, oh my God, I can't believe this. It's a denial for a minute. But the anger stage I never went through because I had been through so much. I had learned to trust the father's love for me. And now it's many years. Hence I'm retired. And starting to write down some of these stories as a legacy for my daughter and my grandchildren and whoever else comes along in the lineage. That the stories are my legacy. Yeah, I think that's wonderful because what you just described is how you experienced total freedom in a very difficult situation. Until you've been to the other side of forgiveness. You don't understand what a powerful tool it is to take away from the enemy that you don't keep yourself trapped in unforgiveness and that you actually trust and let go. You experienced total freedom. Yep. Yeah. So that's a huge release. And you said a very significant thing. You take the power that the enemy has, you take it away from him. And one of the things about forgiveness that I did realize is that if you don't forgive. Which you have a perfect right not to, you have a perfect right to be bitter and angry, but you'll be an old bitter hag nobody wants to be around. That's your alternative. It's hard work to forgive. It's hard work to release. But doing that work is absolutely worth it, because the alternative is hell. In quotes, the alternative is the hellish existence of bitterness and anger and a life that is diminished. Life is greatly diminished by the depression of it, the sadness. And it's interesting, the Lord told me one time that one of his favorite memories of me. He, Re-showed me the picture that after my husband had left me and I was still in the pastoral house, it was very fresh. But I learned the power of not just forgiveness, but gratitude and worship and I picked up my baby daughter, held her in my arms, put on some worship music, and danced around the living room singing worship songs with tears streaming down my face. Wow. Grief and relief in the same moment. And the Lord told me quite some time later, that's one of his most, I'm choking up. Yeah. That's one of his most precious memories of me. Worshiping through my tears. Wow. Yeah. And I did it again when my second husband died. But I discovered that gratitude helps maintain your emotional equilibrium. This is the natural part of you that is sad or depressed or doesn't know what the future is, and you're afraid and all the natural things that happen in your soul. But when you practice gratitude to the Lord, it lifts you. Yeah. It's, again, it's part of the work of getting healed. But I went to church one day and one of the pastors said, Hi Gail, how are you? And I went, I'm okay. That's a, I'm really not, but I am telling you I am. Yeah. Because it's the right thing to say. Yeah. And I'm telling you, that was a downward spiral and I went, oh shoot, I can't do that again. I need to maintain that worship and the gratitude and when I ran out of things to be grateful for, I went into the word and I go, Lord, thank you. You said, you would never leave me or forsake me. Thank you that I'm seated with you in heavenly places. And I would just use the Bible to find things to be thankful for and I think of David in so many of his psalms. You see his humanity. He gets angry about how evil prospers, and he gets depressed and my soul is downcast. But he always, there was always a but in his songs. But I have trust, his Psalm 13, look up Psalm 13. He's going be merciful lest I sleep, the sleep of death. He's being very dramatic. A lot of verses, right? And he's very depressed. Yeah. And down. And then suddenly there's this, but I have trusted in your loving kindness, I will sing unto the Lord for he has dealt bountifully with me. That's one of the most powerful psalms because it's a model for feel the feelings. Go ahead, feel'em all. Yeah. But put the but in there and go, but God, I'm going to trust you with my life. With my daughter, with our wellbeing. All that I am afraid of, and it's, I think it's really important. I've shared some deeply spiritual things, but it's also important to allow the humanity. As a therapist friend of mine says, admit, feel and release. So you admit it? I'm miserable. This sucks. Yeah. I don't like it. You admit it and you allow yourself to feel those feelings to a point. But like I said about the downward spiral of self-pity, oh, I'm okay. Please pray for me. The self-pity is the worst. Yeah. And so gratitude and forgiveness and worship help maintain your emotional equilibrium until the scenery changes. Yeah. And unless scenery eventually changes. Yeah, that's so good what you just said. Basically you said, if you don't forgive, you don't forget. Oh yeah. It steals your entire life from you. And like you said, no one's gonna wanna be around you. Your kids aren't gonna be around you. It's because you're stuck. Yeah. The worship helps you get unstuck. Going to the Bible, speaking, what's in the word, helps you get unstuck. And I know that, every day, I work on that, there's always something that makes me almost stumble or stumble. And then I go to the word and I try to write a list that of things I'm grateful for and it does pull me back to the other side. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It actually has an effect that is, as I said, maintaining your emotional equilibrium. I could tell when I was dipping below the waves, as it were. Yeah. And the waves crash. When you go through something traumatic, it's wave after wave. And you wonder when it's gonna end. And it feels very dark and the word is very powerful to keep you afloat. But choosing to trust, when you go through something, you have a lot of choices that you have to make. And choosing to trust. I will put my trust in the Lord. Trust is not a feeling, neither is forgiveness. Forgiveness is a decision that you have the power to forgive another person. And trusting is a decision. And I liken it to stepping from one room into another where you simply decide to go into the next room. I'm deciding, Lord, I will put my trust in you. I may not feel it, but it isn't about feelings. It's about your choosing to trust his goodness. And that's what the enemy loves to throw in your face. If God is good, why? And I had a coworker once, an believer who said to me one day, and it was very tender, but he said, Gail, how can you believe that God is good? Look at all you've been through. And I said, yes. Take a good long look at all I've been through. If I say God is good, he's good. And the guy just looked at me with wide eyes and had no response whatsoever because going through and thriving, overcoming is so powerful. And then your light shines forth in a deeper way. It makes you more authentic to go through all this hard stuff. It really does. And I didn't wanna go through any of it. I wanted everything to be just perfect. So I wouldn't have to suffer. Yeah. It's like the scripture that says that I may know Christ and the power of his resurrection and the fellowship of his sufferings, whatever that is, I don't wanna know that. We just, we kind of skip over the fellowship of his sufferings. Yeah. But when you allow that to shape you, it transforms you. And you sense the oneness with Christ. That doesn't come any other way, but through suffering, we are one with Christ. We all know that. Yes, you are one with Lord he comes to live in us. But going through suffering is really a fellowship with the Lord. And it's amazing. You're making me think about last Sunday at church what pastor Jason said about the passion. People don't realize the passion means suffering. Isn't that right? Yes. Isn't that what he said? Yes. The word passion. That's why the movie Mel Gibson made the Passion of the Christ. Yeah, I know. I got it at that moment. Yeah. And it's interesting that today we're talking about this and today is Good Friday. I know. I thought the same thing. It's amazing. Yeah. Yeah, it is. It's a day when we don't have to mourn as those who have no hope. He died and we honor him. But the Bible says we died with him. I'm not sure I fully understand that yet. I've still got a lot to learn. Yeah, me too. But that's the fun of overcoming. Yeah. Because it's here I am in this season of my life with my gray hair and I'm going, oh, I have so much to learn. Isn't this exciting? And every now and then, now you need to know I am still believing for the restoration of my daughter. And I live with her and my son-in-law and my granddaughter, and I see the hurt. But she knows my story and she has said I know I have to forgive my father. And I'll tell you a miracle that happened because she was so mad at him. She wanted him to, this is three years ago, she said, I hope he dies of miserable death. And I said, nothing, because there's nothing you can say in that moment, like oh, don't say that, that, it's don't do that. It's useless. Over the last few years, I've watched the Lord work in her heart, and she and I went up to New York just before Christmas and met with him, and she reconciled with her natural father. Wow. And it was a miracle that she went from hating him and wanting him to die a horrible death. And I don't know how it happened except that, holy Spirit, there's a wonderful verse. If anybody's listening and you have children and they're, they've ridden off the rails, and you think, oh God, can you ever bring them back to faith? There's a wonderful verse that says, A bruised reed, he will not break and a dimly burning wick or fire, he will not put out. So I looked at my daughter through the years, she's a believer, but got real secular and new age and whatnot and I just thought, no, it's a dimly burning wick, and he won't snuff it out, he'll blow on it, and revive her. Every now and then, the Lord lets me see a bit of revival in her. But he also said, let the tares grow with the wheat because we're parents and we want so badly for our children to know the Lord and to prosper and to recover from all the trauma they've been through. It's easy to get in the way, and the Lord told me, let the tares grow with the wheat. I know where the tares are, I know what to do about them you don't. And it's you let me take care of this. I've got her, I'm in charge and my job is to rest and trust. Yeah. Oh, interesting. There we go. Back to trusting again. At every turn that seems difficult. He's saying kinda like Aladdin. Do you trust me? That wonderful scene where he wants her to get on the carpet? Do you trust me? Yeah. And she can see in his eyes, oh, she sees that, that familiar look. And I feel like that's Jesus a lot of times. Do you trust me when the going gets hard? I go, yes, Lord, I'm scared, but I trust you. That's a good image. Oh, the films are full of wonderful stuff. Yeah, they are. It's interesting that she felt that way about her dad because she was so little when this all happened. Did she see him throughout her childhood? He would show up at award ceremonies. Oh. So of course she got straight A's he really wasn't that involved and there were just other things that happened once she got older. That she collected some hurts of her own from him. And so it's been an absolute miracle to see her forgive him, but she knew my testimony and this is the power of testimony and why, I wanna write it down and leave it for posterity or whoever, this is fun. I get to say it online. Because it's very powerful to realize that God really is at work in us to bring us to new places all the time. And the power of forgiveness. The power of worship. And I'm not just talking about singing songs. I'm talking about in your quiet time, you could have tears streaming down your face and you go, God, I'm gonna trust you. You are my God. And there is no other, that's worship. And it, it doesn't have to be what we always think of it as, go to church and sing the songs. It's no, it's your heart. It's having a heart of worship, a heart of gratitude. And there are yet victories I hope for, but I have seen one that was a hope for years and it finally came to pass. And she's 37 so it just came to pass in this last year. That's great. Yeah. Isn't that amazing. But it's also, I actually stopped praying. It's probably good too. It is. Because the Lord said, listen, you have asked, yes, I have heard you. I have heard you. I'm doing this. I've got her several times. He would say, let the tares grow with the wheat. All the different things he has said to me. Yeah. It's will you please relax? You don't have to fight and pray and get all energized about, there are times when you do, I've actually had a moment where I go, okay, that's it. And I bind something, we can bind, we can lose. He's given us the power and I see the power of it, but for the most part, what he has called me to do is rest and trust. And you be you. Yeah. It's kinda like, come on Gail, you go do what I'm calling you to do. Don't worry about her. I've got her, I've got him, I've got whoever, don't you worry about them, you follow me? And so it's okay, pursue the Lord and what he's calling me to do. And I still pray occasionally, it's that kind of desperate prayer that he said, no, you don't need to do that. Yeah. Boy, have I learned that lately, the last couple weeks too. Really? Yeah. Just to let it go and surrender and that God loves your children no matter where they are and what they're doing. Yes, he holds the tether. And we would want to hold the tether a little closer. And he goes, no, don't worry. I know it looks like it's really far away, but I've got it. Yeah. He's still got the tether because of his love I had to realize that the Lord loves my daughter more than I do. And that was after I discovered that she had been exposed to SRA Satanic Ritual abuse. Oh, wow. Wow. As a very young child. Oh my gosh. And yes. Oh, talk about adding insult to injury. You could go, really, God? put her in childcare and this is what happens. And anyway, believing that no matter what she was programmed with or whatever they did, I have had to forgive them. And you go, wait a second. Wait a second. That's pure evil. Yes it is. Oh my gosh. Yeah. That's what we would call pure evil. We label it that and it's can you believe Romans 8:28? It's either true, all the way true or it's not. That God causes all things to work together for good and it to those who love God and are called according to his purpose. There's the whole verse. And one of my friends once said, God is able to play 3D chess to the nth power. If you think about a 3D chess board, first of all, chess is an intellectual game. Requires great strategy. And do it 3D. And then think to the nth power, how he moves the pieces of the chess board so that it does the most good for the most people. And you go, how do you do that? I think his answer is, I'm God and you're not. It's yes, I have a bigger brain here and I can do this. And he can and he will. So that when we hit these really hard times he's asking, do you trust me? And do you trust that I am able and willing to work at all for good, especially when it looks awful and unfixable. Wow. So how old was she when you figured out she was exposed to SRA? She was five when she disclosed. Oh my gosh. So she was around it for several years then? For probably age two we started seeing strange symptoms, but finally yeah, it was actually, maybe she was four, but close to five. And it's a longer story. We still haven't figured everything out. But I remember Erin asking me one time, do you think the Lord could heal me without me remembering everything? And I said, oh, yes. Oh, absolutely. He's 100% committed to your total freedom and release and it's Holy Spirit. He's so powerful and he knows everything. I still don't know all the details of what happened to my daughter, but he knows, and I trust him with what he knows. I just, I was gonna burst into tears for a second. You just said, Yes, God can heal you without you remembering all of those details. I think I know and love someone very dearly who is traumatized by something in the past, and it's not nearly as bad as what you're describing, but they just don't wanna go through the wounds or let it go to get the healing. I just think that is a beautiful thing you just said that God and the Holy Spirit can take it from you. Jesus can take it from you if you let him, and you won't have to remember it. You won't have to remember the pain and the hurts and the wounds. I have a couple of friends who are going through healing from SRA and one gal was deeply into it as a child and greatly traumatized by it. But the Lord has been gentle with her. He will only let you know what you're ready to know. Again, it's about trusting God's heart of love, the whole thing that the enemy calls into question is God good and does he love you? Does he love somebody else more than you? No. He absolutely loves every person that he made, that he put his image in, that we are made in the image of God. It's like you have the image in you and he loves who he made. I don't care what mess you've made of you, he loves you. Mess and all. I think that we've just gotten away from God not being afraid of messiness. Yeah. Where we go you've gotta do this and you've gotta do that. And Christianity has created so many boxes, and we've gotten away, many churches have gotten away from the core of the gospel is that God made you and he loves you, and he knows exactly what you've done with your life and how you've messed it up. And he goes I don't care. I love you. Would you trust me to heal you? And deliver, you set you free. I still have plans for you. And people get discouraged thinking, oh, God can't love me anymore. Yeah. I've done way too much shame. The shame, the shame. The shame. Yeah. And that's a lie. That's a lie of the enemy. Oh, now you've blown it. Now you've committed the unpardonable sin. Nope. Nope. He isn't afraid to get his hands dirty. I love that. Yes, that's right. Jeremiah 29:11. Yes, exactly. For I know the plans I have for you says the Lord for you to prosper and succeed. Yeah. And you're right. There's nothing he can't fix cause that's the lie. The enemy wants us to stay in that trap that, oh, you've done it now you've blown it. Yep. It's not fixable. And I think it's a really good question to ask ourselves, what are the lies I'm believe in? And I know it's hard when you're feeling all the hard feelings. It's hard to suddenly flip a switch and get spiritual about it, if you can do it, it's a good thing where you can go whoa. Am I believing a lie? What am I thinking right now? What am I believing? I believe there's no hope. That's a lie. That's always a lie. 100% of the time. But there were lies I believed about myself. Like I always thought I wasn't creative, and that's a long story, but the Lord healed me of that. And I went, oh my gosh, I'm creative. All my life, I thought I wasn't. And so that was a lie about myself that I believed when in fact, It's a part of who he created me to be. I always thought of myself as a bit of a hobbit, let everybody else have the adventures. I just want tea at four and stay home and read books about adventures. But I had to realize that was another lie. I'm extremely adventurous. It's an important question to ask, am I believing a lie? Because Holy Spirit will tell you. I just love it. Jesus said, the Holy Spirit will lead you into all truth. It's holy Spirit, what do I need to know? Please tell me if there's a lie I'm believing. Or maybe it's not even a lie, but I just love, I've learned to love the Lord's judgment. And it's very gentle. Sometimes Holy Spirit will go, you're fussing. Oh yeah, I'm fussing and that's it. All I have to do is hear. That's kinda funny. Stop fussing. And because I've got my knickers in a knot about something, and I'm upset. Yeah. And I hear this still small voice. You're fussing. And I shift. So he can do that with anything. He could suddenly say, that's not the truth. That's a lie. It's so funny saying that, because I posted several times on my Heavenhookup_s Instagram page about the truth. And then the last one was daily question, are you believing a lie? And I showed it to my youngest son and he's mom, no one's gonna, no one wants to know they're believing a lie. No one, thinks they believe a lie. That's the problem. And I'm like, it's true. We don't we think everything we are saying is right and everybody else absolutely is wrong. Yes. But the thing is, when you're living a lie, you don't know it unless you do ask the Holy Spirit. It's funny. And that's the hope. Oh my gosh. That's the hope. I love Holy Spirit. Because you can ask anything you want. Yeah. I think a lot of my conversations with the Lord. I ask him lots of questions. How about this? Why that? It, sometimes I don't get answers, but sometimes I do because we have conversations. But asking Holy Spirit, please reveal truth to me. For those who don't know the Holy Spirit, what do you mean? When you hear from the Lord or you hear from the Holy Spirit, how are you hearing and what does it sound like? It's a thought. I've never heard the audible voice of the Lord. And to be truthful, there are times I'll hear something in my head and I go, I don't know if that's you or me. If that's you're gonna need to confirm it another way, because I can't quite tell. But there have been many times, and usually for me, because I'm such a logical person, and I think in terms of a logical progression, I can go, oh, yeah, that's my thought. I just thought through it and I figured it out. But he will broadside me with a thought that came out of nowhere. And that's when I go, oh. Oh my gosh. That's you. Yeah. Yeah. And I know it. Usually, it's not a logical progression that leads to a conclusion. It's just a thought that breaks through my, whatever I'm thinking about. It could be thinking about what I'm going to make for dinner. And it's just and this is why people get revelations in the shower. Yeah, I know. Because you're doing something else. And I think he just knows me if I'm real quiet. I sometimes I don't know if I'm hearing from him. It's something that you learn to discern his voice and you ask for that. You ask Lord, help me hear your voice. There are a lot of good books written about hearing the voice of God. But it's not something, and I know people have heard the audible voice, but I would say in general it's a thought in my head. Just unknowing. So as you develop your relationship with the Lord, then you start to hear more. And so if we could just go back a little bit, I wanted to know what was Dr. Jack Hayford's reaction to the affair? How did he take it? How did he treat you? Because my husband was his right hand man, he was very hurt. Oh, wow. And very angry. But with me, he was very gentle. I went to his office one day and we had tea together and he said, honey, we're gonna take care of it. And they did. I was taken in by some close friends, so that, God bless them, they were willing to take me and a baby who didn't sleep through the night. The church paid them money and gave me spending money and then they paid for me to get into an apartment so I could, in other words, they got me back on my feet and that's wonderful. They were a huge support. I was about six months from the time he left until I was able to get a job and move into an apartment, and so they supported me through that whole time. Now, were you, did you stay with his ministry and his church? Oh yeah. And that was hard. Oh, yeah. In fact, that's where I had married my second husband, and Jack performed that ceremony. He performed with both of them. Oh, that's great. But yeah, I remember, I think one of the hardest things to take when something is public is the piteous looks of people. They don't know what to say. They don't know how to treat you. And so I would go to church late and leave early. I'd sit in the back and leave early until I decided to despise the shame as it says of Jesus, I need to just, I need to walk with my head up. But that was probably a few months before I could do that. I just wanted to come and go quietly and not have to face people looking at me. I had close friends that I could dump on and they made me laugh and we went out together and, I began to live again, but I still had a tiny baby. I was taken care of so it was hard. It was just a really hard time. But the church was there for me and Jack was there for me personally, and he always was even through the death of my second husband. He has truly been my spiritual father. And I would have to say that the main thing Jack taught was overcoming. He taught me to be an overcomer. He also taught me to be authentic. I have a degree in theater, so when I came to know the Lord, my personality was bits and pieces of parts I'd played that made me look cool. And Jack was so authentic telling stories about himself, and I thought you would think if you're open and honest, that people won't respect you. And the opposite is true, I've discovered. Yeah. And I learned what I call transparency. I learned that from him. That's interesting that you thought you weren't creative yet, you were a theater major. I know. That doesn't make any sense, Gail. Oh, and I was a singer songwriter. I was a singing hippie in the Jesus movement in Hollywood. Sang in a coffee house, wrote songs. Yeah, I've had a fairly colorful life, so is there anything you wanna share with us now about the hippie movement now that this Jesus Revolution movie is out? It's interesting. I don't know how much time we have but yeah, the Jesus Revolution movie, I was very grateful that they didn't sugarcoat anything. It's quite authentic. Have you seen it? I haven't seen it. No. I haven't seen it yet, but I can't wait. It's quite authentic and Kelsey Grammer does a great job with it, but it does appear because of the Time Magazine article. You get the sense from the movie that Costa Mesa is where the Jesus movement started and it really didn't. It was already going in Hollywood when I got there in 1968, after college and the, one of my dearest friends was the flashpoint for the Jesus movement in Hollywood. She was living on the streets. She was a hippie, and she got pregnant. And showed up at Hollywood Presbyterian Church. And this is a church that's one block away from Hollywood Boulevard, and it's a big important church. Celebrities went there, suits and dresses and hats and whatnot, and, she went to that church one time and the college pastor was speaking and she waited to talk with him afterwards and burst into tears and said, I'm pregnant, and I don't know what to do. Long story short, he found some elders in the church to take her in until she had her baby, and then she gave the baby up for adoption. But she said to him, his name is Don Williams. And she said, Don, you've taken me into your world. I wanna take you into mine. And she took him to the streets and showed him what was really happening. And he wrote a book called To the Streets. He said, we gotta do something about this. These young people are hungry and nobody's giving them bread. Figurative bread. You just gave me chills. So he started a ministry. Where they went out in the streets, they started community houses, so people would've a place to live. And you see that in the film. You see a community house and people bringing food. That was happening in Hollywood by this time. By the time I met her it was'68,'69, and I think, Lonnie Frisbee came in 1970 to Costa Mesa. But anyway, we had maybe six or seven community houses that would take people in and the elders and deacons at Hollywood Press Church would make meals. They had it all organized. They would bring meals and they would eat with the with the young people in the homes. And it was a beautiful thing that the church allowed hippies with barefoot and or sandals, and t-shirts and jeans sitting next to suits. And you see that in the film? And that's what happened in Hollywood, but it was also happening in Kansas. It was also, it's almost like the Asbury Revival where it starts to break out everywhere. Yeah. I think Holy Spirit was doing something in that era, but the public thing happened because of a journalist who investigated and then wrote the Time Magazine article, and that's what really put it on the map. And Calvary Chapel became the start of Maranatha music, so it's an important film. Yeah. It's an important historical movie. And there's a documentary about the Hollywood Jesus movement called Salt and Light, it's a documentary, it's not a movie like this. But yeah, that was a fun era. And then I had, after about four years, discovered the Church on the Way. The charismatic renewal was happening. So I became a singer there and worship leader and whatnot. But now my daughter's the musician. That's a great story. Thank you for sharing that. Before we hop off what advice would you have for singles or married people? I know that's a loaded question. Sure it is. You used to minister to a lot of young people. Is there anything you wanna say to them? In today's world, it's so different. Oh, it is. Having been single three times. Of course we all start out single, but I never expected to be single twice. Now I'm single again. You hear that gentleman. I think the most important thing is to keep saying yes to Jesus. Even if you never get married, let go of that. I know it's hard. I have friends. I have a friend who, she's a fabulous woman. She's in her fifties, never been married, and you go, what the heck? It's really important, I believe, to be honest. In fact, Jack Hayford was asked the question, what is the most important thing in order to be, I think the question implied to be successful, whatever. And he said, honesty before God. And I believe that's true. It's honesty. But I would add to that and say, just keep saying yes. There was a young girl when I, we were pastoring the singles and like I said, we were celebrities and she had stars in her eyes. It's like, how do you get to be you? I said, just say yes. At every turn of the road. And years later I saw her I remember thinking, what would she say now that my whole life is at shambles? And I thought, I would still say yes. Years later, I saw her in a restaurant and she looked, chewed up and spit out. Life had not been kind to her, as they say. I got a chance to share with her and I said, Elaine, I still say the same thing. Just say yes to Jesus, say yes to what He leads you say yes to the hardness, this suffering, say yes. And don't worry about whether you're getting married or not. And I know it's wow, easier said than done, but it's really for eternity and for the sake of the kingdom. It's about saying yes. You were able to speak to her now from this place. Yeah. Of your pain that you went through was more powerful than if your life had been perfect. Yeah. She, if you, life was still like she saw it years ago. Yeah. She would think she messed up had you not gone through the suffering. Yeah. That you did go through. Exactly. And I tried so hard to be perfect, but I have to tell you, I'm a happy failure. That's so good. Yeah. I know. That is so good. I was still, what you just said, I was thinking about this morning. Because everybody looks at the end result. Yeah. And they want that, but they don't know that the pain and the suffering that people go through when they're truly walking with God and going after their destiny they don't know the hurdles and the suffering along the way. The wounds. Yeah. And the things that happen that you have to learn and go through. Yeah. So that's so good. And I think it's a good reason to read some of the stories even of Christians in the last centuries of what they went through, because we look at people as big and powerful and successful and maybe they've never been through anything. And it's don't kid yourself. They have been through stuff. That's so true. Yeah. It's powerful. I wanted my life to be perfect. Then I could go see, if you do what I do, everything's going to be fine. Yes. It's there's a lie. Yeah. I think we all have to learn that lesson. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Thank you so much, Gail. This has been such a pleasure and I just think it's so timely with Easter being this weekend and today being good Friday. Yeah. All the things we've talked about and I just think you're a treasure. And thank you. It's such a blessing. Oh, thank you so much. And I love that you're so humble. You're so humble. And the way you talk about yourself as a self-proclaimed former Pharisee. I just think that is such a great line. I'm still recovering. Yeah. Oh, so gosh. Oh, but this has been a great time of sharing. Thank you for the opportunity to share my story or a couple of them. We're, so thankful that Gail was here with us. And I just wanna say this episode is sponsored by Princess Gabby Girl the Sparkly Dress book and Grateful Air Clothing coming out June 1st. Follow us on Instagram@Heavenlyhookup_s and you can find more episodes and everything I just mentioned on CamilleBattaglia.com. Thank you so much and have a beautiful week. Thank you.