Against All Odds - "Make it last forever."

Church Girl meets Guy!

College Sweethearts, Carmela & Carrington Adkins share their 28 year road map though their ups & downs...baby before marriage, boundaries, standards, separation, forgiveness & devotion. Through it all Prayer is Everything!

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My life, without her in it, I almost know what that would look like. It would be trashy. It would be horrible because, there are things that she supplies to me that I need. We're one. You have passion and romance with God, then you will have passionate romance everywhere else. And the things that most people deal with won't be an issue. Carmela and Carrington Atkins are my guests today on Heavenly hookups. As we talk about what love looks like after 28 years and making it against all odds. Carmela and Carrington how are you? Hey, Camille. Hi. Thanks for joining us on my second interview here with heavenly hookups, amen. It's our pleasure. I'm so excited to have you two here. You both have amazing voices and Carmela's sounds like an angel when she's singing and Carrington sounds like an angel when he's preaching and plays the piano. Also you can hear him on Envoy, which is a fantastic news outlet produced by Carrington and a couple of other of our preachers. It's a great, if you want to know what's going on in Washington, DC and what's happening from God's perspective, it's a really a fresh new way of looking at things. I'm just here to learn from you guys. You've been together for 28 years now and that's an amazing accomplishment. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. I know it's probably not been an easy road. You know, I'm divorced. I admire that you two could make it and push through. You know, it's never easy, but I think it's really fantastic. I think that you'll help a lot of people when they learn about what you went through, how you got there and, how you're in such a great place right now. And, how excited you are. You're more like newlyweds now at 28 years when she say beginning. Yeah. So let's start at the beginning. Let's find out, a little bit more about how you fell in love and how you came together. Carmela, were you attracted to Carrington at the beginning? Oh yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. The physical attraction, was of course a big draw, but I knew better, you know, having come to college, and was, already a believer in Christ. I knew better not to be, too overtaken by the outward appearance. Like that's not necessarily what I was looking for in a man and a guy. So we met through a mutual friend and then actually started our, what we would call a friendship, but really was a romance that started one night. When we both met each other at a campus, dance or party, we'd already, known each other, but both of us came individually by ourselves and, you know, cause we liked to dance and we both liked music. And so yeah, that's kind of, we're still dancing here. That's right. It's in the kitchen. Oh, it's crazy in here. I love that. I love that. I'm not going to tell you what my dad used to say that he'd do in the kitchen once all of our kids move out. I'll probably do that. That's probably what I do. But anyway, so even in the dance, what happened there was, again, like she said, we went, solo, which was strange for both of us. We both had friends and I never had gone before without anyone else. My buddies and, so I saw her there and we danced to the fast song and then the slow song came on and then trying to, well, we're gonna do you know what I mean? Now we've got a decision to make, well, we danced and the song was called, make it last forever. Wow. Yeah. Yeah, it was make it last forever. And so just one of those signs that, one of those little, I guess unspoken criteria, my mind that was, met was a when I was singing the song because the song is actually a song that's a duo and it has a man's part, the woman's part. And so I was singing the man's part, you know, just singing it and she's then she's sang, and, and I was like, Oh, wow, you're right. She seems like an angel in my ear. I was like, Oh, and that was like a first sign. Cause I got, I got a few things that my dad told me that I should, you know, I took all my cues from family up until, I became a believer and, that was one of those things he told me what to marry, but that privately in my own, that was my, one of my list. Things, you know, that no one I never spoke out I wrote out is that she will be able to sing. Cause I knew I was musical. So anyway, we went on from there to talk, the rest of that whole night until she had to go to church. And I discovered that she was a family person, just like me. I mean, literally her mom, just like my mom has 10 siblings. Oh wow. And so we realized really quickly that we're family people that we love music. We like to dance. And, you know, she was a way better person, but I was all right. Ish, ish. And, that was enough for us to, you know, for something to begin there. Well, I love how you stayed up all night talking. I think that's a big indicator that you're in love. I think that's really, it's a beautiful part of your story. So, from there, she's has this church thing going on. She's a church girl. She wants to go to church. And, and how do you feel about it, Carrington? How do I feel about her being a church girl felt like, you know what? I'll be honest. I was, I left that night. She went on to church. I left, I walked her to her dorm room and by the way, I walked her to her dorm. When we stayed downstairs, no men were allowed up. So we stayed down there and we talked, till 6:00 AM but I left thinking, wow, she's got a lot of qualities. All of it. She's attractive. She's good. She's got integrity. You know, she's got that. She only has one little fault. His name was Jesus. Yes, she right. She was the Jesus girl. And, I just was like, yeah. Man, you know, we all have our vices. Right. So I felt like that was just a vice. So yeah, yeah. Your head was not there at that moment. You're more going, hanging out and going to the club and probably, yeah, yeah. We were 18 years old, young college students, freshmen, you know, when you come into college, your freshman year, it's like, everything is opened up to you. So he definitely didn't want to be limited by tieing himself to some church girl. Yeah. You just got there. Yeah. It meant don't do a bunch of stuff. Like all the good stuff. Don't do those things. Yeah. Yeah. So then what happened from there? So then, we go on and we have a relationship thing, for a long time. We had a baby and then fast forwarding through quite a bit. You know, she became serious about God and, she was already a Christian, but she decided to commit herself to God. Meaning that she loved God more and she became devoted and one of the signs that she did that was, I was visiting my grandmother as I did often. And while I was there, I got a phone call from her saying that, this relationship thing is over this, that's it, after a long time and me after a baby, you know, after a long time. And so she said to me, yeah, we're, we're unequally yoked. And, I think I'm 20 or something like that. So unequally, yoked, I thought that that's verbiage for like a adult or something. I don't even know what that was. I didn't read the Bible. I literally didn't understand what she was saying, you know? And, she kept with it though. We were unequally yoked. We can't be together. Okay. And what were you doing? What did you tell me before that you had been doing right before she called you? I was cutting the grass. We had like 8 or 9 acres of grass. I kinda enjoyed it. I mean, it's our family property, I was cutting the grass, come in. I was tired, and that phone rang and I got the phone. I'm not sure if my grandmother answered her who, but anyway. Yeah. So she told me were unequally yoked, and then she, then she kept with that and hung up. And I looked at that phone after she hung up about at least 10, 15 seconds, like what just happened? I don't even understand that. And so what happened was that she began setting standards. She began to show that God was first in her life. She began to make steps. To align herself with what she knew was right from the inside. I always say this, she was backslidden with me. I wasn't back slidden I was just sliding. I didn't have anything to go back to. I didn't have a foundation, in Christ or anything like that. I hadn't had any experience at all, except for, just going to church with my family and the holidays. And even then I was thinking about something else while the service was going on. So she was living this thing out and she began to take steps and it went on from there, that she began to set standards, even for visiting my son. Now we have a son, you know, and I went over there whenever I felt like it. I like literally morning, night. You know, I remember I'll never forget. She's laughing, she's laughing because she knows where I'm going to go, but I gotta tell the story. So, one morning, cause I, I worked a lot, I had 3 jobs and some of them overnight and so I'll never forget. I felt like I wanted to go see my son literally just random. I just, when I wanted to see him, I wanted to see him. And so I went over there. I went over there this time. Yeah, no, that'd be, yeah, I mean. I'm just thinking I went up to the house, both of y'all, but I'm just saying I went over there and I'll never forget when I got there. I got off at seven, so 7:00 AM. And so I got there, I don't know, whatever 7:15 or 7:30. Do you know that there was another man? Whew. Well, first I wasn't there. She wasn't there. And I saw, I was like, Whoa, Whoa, Whoa. It is early, you know? Oh, Whoa. You know, that was a strange, not necessarily a flag then, but I'll never forget. I stayed around for just a second, but long enough for her to come back home. And then this other man has got her. I love it. And my baby and he's carrying my baby out in the baby thing. What you guys all know, the people who are listening wouldn't know now is that wasn't okay with me. And I I'm the kind that would show it. And it is a miracle. I mean, I looked at him like, He was ready to get punched in his face. I don't know what else to do. I don't know what else to do. I mean, this, how this looks, I mean, you know, and come to find out, she had returned from an early morning prayer where she was giving God and our son, the first fruits of her day under God, he was just the ride. He was the over the campus ministry. And so that was that scenario, but I, that was all that would've been too deep for me to even understand it. She explained it for two hours. Well, I know there's a man holding my baby and you know, so I'll never forget that I was, I was hot. I was hot. But anyway, so anyway, we won't go on from there. She. They became closer with campus ministry. She, you know, she would get tapes and everything to, to enrich herself. And so she would get tapes and she gave me one, she tried to play one of my car before, like a year prior. And I was like, no, no, no, I don't do self-help people talking on tapes, just music. Is all I really like, and, so it was this summer, and this was a pivotal time right here. After summer, after my son was born, I guess, really, almost a year actually. And, it was, it was a year after he was born and that tape that she gave me before I put the tape in, and it was a man preaching about the kingdom of God and eternity and talking about honor and humility and serving and all these qualities. And I was like, I'd never heard anything like that in my whole life. I played it over and over and over for two weeks, I began to get convicted. And then I had an experience in my room, with God, literally with God and the visitation that took, I don't know how long hours I was just sitting there. I felt like it was burning. And so went over to her house, knocked on her door. And cause he was the only Christian that I knew she would know what was going on. Cause she told me about Jesus and try to get me to go to Jesus before. But Jesus had to appear to me personally and I had to find him on my own. And that's what happened is so I went straight over there and said, Hey, I think I'm a Christian now. Or something happened in my room. Not really sure. And she took me to Kmart and bought me a Bible. She bought herself one matching black and pink and that began my Christian walk there. Wow. So, how long did it take to have this encounter after you were listening to these tapes? Was it just the two weeks or was it longer? It was about two weeks. I had put the, I started the tapes and what was really strange, which I should have known something was strange. Then I didn't play any music for that whole two weeks. And I was played that tape, those two tapes over and over and over and over and over. He was talking about, listen to this. He was talking about dating Christian dating, you know, or premature Christian dating when you're not ready. I think it's worth Carmela talking about, now maybe the standards that you set and why did you just backtrack a little bit to your standard that you set in your own time? Yeah. Yeah. So, to backtrack a little bit, really after our son was born, not even after he was born, but like when I was pregnant and, realize, okay, I'm pregnant outside of wedlock, with another human being that I'm going to be responsible for it. So life started sobering up for me a little bit, meaning the weight of that responsibility really began to set in. And I had to, reevaluate my life because I knew that I would be responsible for another life and, being a Christian, I knew that this wasn't the right way, this wasn't God's best, for me to be number one, involved with, a guy who isn't a believer. And I knew the standard because of the church that I was part of. And then, the campus ministries that were geared to young adults. And, I knew this standard. I had a lot of examples of the right Christian standard as far as, dating and marriage, the Christian way. So, having said all that and then, not allowing myself to have the level of accountability that I really should have, because that would have helped me or guided me more. Into really abstaining from a relationship that's not rooted and grounded in God. So you had talked about, you were evangelizing dating. Yeah. That missionary, we call it so many things back then. We called it missionary dating. We called it evangelist dating. But the bottom line is, dating somebody that, is not, not only is not a professing believer in Christ. Cause that's the first step, is the person a believer, have they repented of their sins, are they saved, but then, you do have the youth that are saved, but they're just living, backslidden. Evangelistic dating is literally dating somebody who isn't a believer, isn't a Christian. And then in the hopes that your lifestyle and your prayers, and you're evangelizing them, will set them right. And get them straight, you know? And I, I laugh because it is so deceiving, the girl or the guy, either way, if it's a girl doing it or it's a guy doing it, just to think that, just your example, there will that example alone of not holding a standard is an example against the walk that you're supposed to have as a, as a believer. You know, having realized that after getting pregnant I really had to make a choice with my life and had to decide to follow Christ and follow the Lord with all my heart the right way. Even having to face, possibly being a single parent, because I didn't know what the Lord was going to do in Carrington's heart. I knew at that point we're about to have a baby together. And then even after having a baby together, I knew I loved him and cared for him deeply. I knew that if I were to try to continue with a relationship with him, Yeah. Yeah, yeah. It must've been so hard to give up the man that you love and the future that you thought you were going to have. Right. And the family you're going to have together. And it was so brave of you to like, say, no, this is not the way my son's future is going to go. His dad is not just going to come and go when he feels like it. You know, we're not going to have that because that's not what, what, how it was designed to be. So I really admire you for that. That's not an easy thing to do after the fact it's much easier. Don't you think to maybe have that standard beforehand? Oh yeah, because you know, I mean, there were times, I don't know if I've even articulated to him this, but there were times when I was, when I was pregnant and knowing where we were. In our relationship Carrington and I, and there were times where I was just, you know, just so much regret. I was thinking, why didn't I end this relationship? Like, you know, when I, when I should have like, you know, that was going through my head all while, and, and the reason I probably hadn't ever talked to him about it, because eventually the Lord did bring us together. We got married and we believe, you know, with all of, well, our hearts, that, that it was the will of God for us to be married. So, you know, those were just all of the, the doubts and the fears that, I was going through in that Valley time, when, I was pregnant and not knowing what I mean, literally my question, there was a question Mark in my future. So during the encounter that you had, you were talking about is that when you ask God, should I marry? Yeah. So, so yeah. So after. So I became a Christian. I had I had an experience with God and she helped me navigate that. She, you know, helped me, you know, we, we were I went before the people and to, you know, to profess that, you know, and everything. And I got, you know, accountability group of brothers around me, you know, for the first time I haven't people asking me, how am I doing with some very private things? What, what did you say? So I had this a whole new world. It was a whole new world, but anyway, I received those brothers and you know, but you know, but one thing that I didn't want to do was because I had a personal, a very, very personal encounter with the Lord. I mean, I went back to my own apartment and I was like with the Lord, I mean, it was great. I mean, I had no bad stuff in my life. I mean, it was just that. So I actually I remember one of my first prayers, you know, to God, after he visited me was I guess, where I prayed for what I call a God said, which is something that I can bank on fully that I know as much as I'm alive, that God said this to me. I was praying because I wanted to not get married. Just because we had a baby, there was something that I knew about the sanctity of marriage, you know, even without studying the whole lot at all, at that point that I wanted to make sure that, you know, that I was marrying her for, because we're supposed to be married. So I needed a God said, and I prayed and I'll never forget. I did. I got a God said, wow. You know, I got a yes from God, you know? And without that, I don't think that I would have. And so meaning, meaning I have this whole new relationship with him now. So anyway, that's just a real pivotal piece for me, because that was my first God said. Yeah, it is. And because, and that will play a part in a lot of things that happen in the future. So anyway, but yeah, it was so I did become a Christian, I had my experience and then And then I got a word from God to marry. That's amazing. So when you went to the club and Carmela prayed before you went there, was that before or after? Yeah, so yeah, that, so that was kinda during the season of, you know, after we had the baby and he would sometimes come to visit me and the baby and I was fully living turn my life over to the Lord. And so during that time, of course I'm praying for him, you know, in that season where I'm fully committing myself to the Lord and, you know, I, I, he was in my prayers often, so, and that was one of those times where I think right before, cause I'd had like a a time cut off of when he could come over. Yeah, that was her. I mean, she put these things in place, two things. This is, this is around the time that, that, that gentle man is a friend of mine. Now a man of God, you know, who was holding my baby, you know, at that time she had these rules and they were that I could not come over there. After after 8:00 PM, I remembered the time. Was it eight early? Yeah. For a reason. And then I couldn't come alone when I did. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's just saying after the fact we have a baby, what do you want them to come over at two o'clock in the morning? I want to call them to know that that was not happening. She was serious about it too. And I had to keep those the standards cause she wanted to, you know, she did that. Her, her idea was to, as she said earlier, what she didn't do with me by relationship, the idea of before you ever get to a place where you regret, there are a lot of steps before that you have an opportunity to cut it off. Right. And so her, her idea was to air. On the side of caution because we have a history. Right. And so that was her standard. So that was why she was doing that. It was the goal was to prevent four or five or six steps later, or maybe we have 10 babies. Right. I don't know. That's what we wanted when we set out to get married. Anyway. That's, that's the importance of that. So anyway, so finishing that story about the yeah, the club thing. So she was praying for me and I didn't know, I don't know what she was praying for me. All I know is I'm going to the club. Like I like to do, I loved it. I had a membership and I'll never forget. I went this night again by myself, first time ever by myself, I went to the club and you know, doing what a guy would do, you know, a wants to do afterward, you know, and really just dance. I mean, I I'm telling you this particular night was the only night in my whole life. Up until that point where I had an absolute horrible time. I mean, I just almost like I couldn't find by dance with or something. I didn't, you know, all the normal things that were happen, none of them would happen. I mean, so much so that I went back to my car. I said, let me just hang out at my car. I mean, maybe something will happen. I mean, it just, it was just, I mean, I, like, I don't know why the night was so bad. I heard asked that by my car and for a while, and I became enraged with why this night so horrible. All of a sudden, and I go back and I tell her about that. I'm not sure when that had did, but she chuckled. And I was like, what'd you check? I just gave you a horrible story, you know? And she chuckled because she's told me Al right. I was praying for you that you would have a bad night, something like that. Can you imagine that? And do you know that from that night forward, I never ever went again, that I, that I remember. And yeah, I really, really did. And, and, you know, and one of the other things I did that happened when I became a Christian that I had, my experience was the music I was listening to influenced me it, you know, music. We don't really understand that, but music is pretty serious. It's not just something smooth to do while riding to work. There's something that's go that goes on there in the lives of people who make the songs and what the lyrics are. And, but we don't realize that we rehearsing and we're playing a song over and over and over again, we're rehearsing the very spirit of that thing. And I mentioned that because we had discussions, discussions, ah, we had debates about. You know, music before, and I would just mess with her a lot of times, you know, and I will try to put my music in and she wouldn't let me do it. No, no, no, you can't play this music. And we would go back and forth and she, you know, she didn't approve of my music. And so, you know, and now, I mean, obviously now I understand why, because I even remember good music, you know, with no band lyrics or anything. And her point was, if it's not glorifying, God is glorifying something. And so there was a very, very important thing that happened with me when I became a Christian, I was, I had lots of, I was known for music. I always had the freshest music I had at first and CDs and everything back, you know, you know, I spent a lot of money on it and I'll never forget I was going to take my CDs back after I became a Christian to the pawn shop or somewhere to get some value back for the CDs. So I could, you know, maybe get some Christian music or whatever, you know, and I, that was one of my earliest convictions that I had. Wow. I felt as I gathered them and put them in a bag to take to the pawn shop, I felt like I was going to give the people, the music that I was listening to and that the things that I, who I was before that music would contribute to them being that same way or worse. Wow. Again, most music today is really trying to tell you what love is and what kind of behavior is acceptable. Do you know, going down to de-value and women, or what to say about women and nowadays it's even worse, but even back then, it was bad enough where I said, you know what? I don't want this music going back out there. So it was a faith step when my, my first one where I took those CDs in that bag, I don't know how many that were. Wow. And I chucked it into a garbage can. And since that day, I have not had a desire to listen to any music or that doesn't glorify God. As a matter of fact, from that point, I went on a fast by first, really fast, and that was a fast for music. There was Christian music out and it was okay. I mean, Christian music back then was way behind in quality. Then I'm sure it probably is today, but I can tell you that even back then the desire to want to, move my head to something or move my body to something. I knew that I had to have a time of seriousness before God without anything. And so I had, I'm not sure if it was a couple of months. I think it was where I didn't, want to hear anything and I just, wanted the word I wanted to come in me and, do something. So anybody that's just a kind of the early days, but we did get married. And got my God said we got married. So obviously our baby was, a year old, he was at our wedding and our pictures have our son, a lot of them have him in it and that's just part of our story, you know? I use my faith and what we were learning in our church and by the men of God, real men of God who were serious about prayer and humility and relationships, and covenant with God. And, so we got married and I had a lot to learn, but you know, right away, you know, I'll never forget. I said, we had to set standards in our home. Carmela, you can talk about it too, but for me, it was important to Well, first of all, obviously there was a time where we didn't think we were going to make it within the first year and that was centered around Carrington. Really? I think about it because I messed around and found a scripture that says wives submit to your husbands, you them. And in my mind, because the, the, as a funny, funny thing, how it all came about, but it wasn't funny back then, because I have to, to my knowledge, I was doing everything that I was learning. And so I felt like everybody around me was converting the same revelation at the same rate. So I felt justified by, the same way that I, everything I was reading, I was trying to become, I felt pure to go and point out, Hey, Oh, by the way, here's for you. So you got me into all this Jesus stuff. Anyway, it shouldn't be too far fetched for you to look at this scripture right here. Here you go. Right here, wives. I put it right in her face. Wives. Let me just tell you what that landed us right in counseling. Okay. I'm in counseling. We're trying to figure out whether we going to make it based upon, my family, I came from you know men, men's men, you know, and they live that way in every sense, but I, I didn't know better than to, appreciate her as a matter of fact, in that council session, what came true in my ear from my Bishop, my pastor was he was encouraging me. Cause my mind I thinking. If you just be like me, we'll be just fine. I don't understand. You know, where if you just would just be just like me, we would be like the couple perfect, you know, and he was explained to me and he taught me this one thing I left there with the revelation, not just the teaching, not just information I left there, the light bulb went off and he told me that I need to, you got to appreciate the differences. I, at that time young, I'm not sure if it was just chronological youth or whatever, but that thing changed me. And so to this very day. So for then, and to this very day, I appreciate that. She's not like me, you know, that makes it dynamic. You know, it literally does, you know, and I believe that we should be United in core value. That's important, but but her differences, man, that, that keeps things fresh. It's I love it. That she's not like me. That was a huge lesson, a huge lesson at a huge price. So we did make it. But from there I began to set standards. I think it's important for the man to set standards in a Christian home, I had to learn that I'll be honest, my philosophy before that was, I think it all needs to be equal. It all needs to be just jointly, which I agree with overall, but, God is real clear about the man leading things. And so where she was the prayer person, because I mean, I'm talking about a woman that I married that even after this time period, I'm talking about, I discovered in the attic prayers. Where she was praying to God. So, when we referenced that she was praying for me, for my salvation, she wasn't just praying that God blessed so-and-so God bless Carrington. I discovered that the literal physical prayers that she put on paper and that had to bring them to her and say, what is all this? I found them in the attic her private prayers. The reason I bring that up is because it's very, very important that what is done in secret will be rewarded openly. God is really clear about the relationship that we have with him is very personal between us individually. The Bible talks about that God will know us, that knowing is the same way that Adam knew Eve, which is physically. So he likens prayer to something physical between a husband and a wife, that level of knowing God she was working on that. And that I believe I was literally looking at prayers that were about me. I mean, do you understand that, broke? You want to break somebody down, even a man's man that broke me down. I'm just telling you, I mean, I don't mean it, you know, but I saw those, I saw the prayers. I went through a couple of them, but I left it alone because that was personal between her and God. In other words, it's not a mistake that I'm here now. Camille prayer is a huge setting standards. Is huge. So anyway, some of the earlier standards that I set in the home after I understood the appreciate her differences and we got past the Ephesians five, and my first memorized scripture that's funny was that I want to make sure that we don't ever, ever, ever use the word, the D word, D I V O R C E. And to this day, I'm really, really careful about even saying it. Because that played a part in our testimony, our recent testimony, not just the one back then, but recently what's happened to us. So I did set a standard, standards in the home that would lend more towards our being unified. And so that word was a word we didn't even use in the house. I needed to do that because, you know, you never know how far you would be from something like that happening. So I wanted to make sure like her to air early on the side of caution to say, we're not even going to say it. Yeah. I think that's really wise and smart. And I think one of the other things you guys talked about is that you said that you promised that you would not sleep separately. Yep. That is true. Yeah. I wanted to make sure to every night, by the end of the night, whatever goes on during the day, That it's all resolved, you know, right in the bedroom. We didn't want to do that couch thing. I'll go on the couch type of thing. Like I saw on TV. Cause again, you know, TV, music, TV, they'll dictate to you. What's acceptable in relationships and how that should go. I mean, if I'm going to do that, that I don't need to be a Christian. She knew for me, I knew I, I had to either go all the way or not at all. It's very important for us in relationship not to get our cues about love from the world, from TV, from music that's not centered in Jesus Christ because if people haven't heard so far, he is the sole reason why we got together. And the sole reason why we're together even now. And you'll hear that a little bit later. Yeah. So now you've been together for a while, and then there was a bit of a turning point what happened before your separation, what made you part ways? Yeah, so fast forwarding all that foundation that we just talked about helped make for a great marriage, an individual relationship with God, me to God and into her, her to God, and then to me. And that was one of the things that we talked about that would help make our marriage successful. Well, my son began to have behavior. That was bad and we didn't know what to do with that. And eventually that led to us disagreeing on how to handle that in our own home. And I found myself isolated and isolated, meaning from, isolating more and more from church from people, from what I, when things that I knew and I found myself drifting so far away. We tried to do it ourselves to handle it ourselves for a couple of years, but unsuccessful in doing so. Because my wife suggested that I go to counseling and that kind of thing. We went to one and then we went to a recovery program, I think one time or something and no, I think we didn't go. I wouldn't go. Because I felt like I knew more than anybody could possibly say to me. I mean, we talking about I'm in the Lord. We couldn't do it on our own, we didn't need help. But what I, what the help that we needed, we really learn later what that helped was it wasn't counseling. It wasn't just accountability. It was something, it was back now to knowing God, because long before anyone ever gets separated, long before anyone ever goes through with that to the next level, to the D word, you have to be separated from God and you have to do the D word toward God. Somebody is always off somewhere. And usually we find by principle is every natural problem down here in the world is a result of something spiritually that's off somewhere else. So I had to get back to that, and anyway, we separated and she came to DC and I stayed down in Atlanta. And then, I lived really, wishy-washy life before God, really mad at God, why'd you take away? My family, you know, good and well. That's all I really care about really is my family. And the one thing I love you took away my family, you know? And so, and that really that, no, it's not on him. Why'd you allow that? I know that I did it, so let's get that right. I know, I know that my, my part, but you know, he allowed that to happen and so I coped with it, in my kind of coping way, you know, different anybody else, but privately within less than two years, I knew that we were separated for almost for three and a half years for three and a half years, three years and six or seven months. Right. And so I knew that, after a while, Yeah. I'm, I'm living in alternate. I knew I was living in an alternate life and I knew that the cause of my depression, fear, anxiety, PTSD, trust issues, those things came in me like almost overnight with the separation. And then they grew as I began less and less trusting anybody out there has my back for real. And so I would live the extremely isolated life. It's very important to know that, I had to take a brave, step and moving up here. Trying to do something, back together even the previous year, but I didn't, and I never forget, she challenged me and she called me one day there and she said, what prevents you from moving up here? And let's just, you know, let's just get, you know, let's just get forward with some things in our marriage and let's work on this thing and I hung up the phone. And couldn't think of anything except for the very comfort that I had created. I learned how to live like that, in my city down there in Atlanta. I knew where things were, I lived a very simple life and there was a little comfort in that actually having been through a bunch of, you know, hell yeah. And I hung up the phone and all I know is. Within one day I moved up here. Isn't that? Not true. In one day I moved up here. Yeah. As a matter of fact, there was a time before that. I don't know if that was a time, but I remember I came up here. I didn't even know. Tell her. Yeah. I just came up here because it was very, yeah. Important. The reason why is because I knew this from the past, when it comes to making Godly decisions, it's not really hard to hear, got anything that comes through your mind that has God word. That's probably him. In other words, if you have two alternatives and one is less of God, and one is more closer, for example, one is more for, towards staying in Atlanta and living, living around and, not even having any, somewhere to sleep every night, and I hate to admit that, but that's, that's how isolated I was. It wasn't an issue of money. It wasn't an issue of family or friends. I had plenty of all that. It was an issue of, I didn't want accountability for, I was cause I was so confused, but it takes, it took a bravery. And what I've found is when it comes to responding to God, the best way to do that is brainlessly. If you start thinking about it, if you start going back and forth about the pros and cons and all this stuff, and you do math, the more you involve math as relates to hearing from God, then the more you're probably going to not do it. And so for me, I needed again to air on the side of caution, by saying, you know what, get everything you can fit in this car and go. And literally after that conversation, I don't even think I told you did I, I just came up here and then I had to go back one time to finish out closing out, moving stuff. And I've been here ever since, literally just saying one day. Well, I remember Carmela said that the last time we talked about this, you said I don't know what you're doing or who you're with. Yeah. She just shared this. She shared this. She said that laid down the law. Yeah, she did. But what it was, I think, that's more of a throwback to the level of the effectiveness of her prayers. You see, I get the privilege of knowing how she lives in private. In here, and I couldn't, I wouldn't even begin to say some of those things because that's between her and God, let me just say this. I will make a plug here. Her first husband is God, she's loyal. Isaiah 54, thy maker is thy husband. And so that, you know, I gave my testimony and we didn't really go cover all the recovery pieces, but I will say this in her own, right. There were things that she said along the way over the years, because during that time period being separated, she sent me scriptures. She was, she was still texting me scriptures, even though I wouldn't always respond or whatever. During that time period, she called me, asked me, what are we doing? Like, what are we doing? I mean, after a year or six months, or two years, or three years, what are we doing? What is this, when she can tell you the things that were in her mind to do. I would tell you that, she still stayed with, God and sending me stuff. And one time again. Yes, you're right. She did call me up and she said, I don't know what you're doing or who you're doing it with, but I'm your wife. Yeah, that's right. That's what she said. And, I remember getting off the phone, and that was not the first, but it was one of the first time, maybe the first sure time when I said to myself, not to her at that time, I said, she's right, right. In other words, cause what she was saying was that anything else that's out there? That's not me. Isn't real. It doesn't have the blessing, the favor and the backing of God as a marriage does because we live in a day where people, where people want to, they want the benefit of marriage. Primarily the, the bed benefit of marriage. Let's be honest. They want that benefit first. They want the companionship part second. So most people today, if we look at the numbers, it's inverted. The amount of people that get married now is not, it's not that many people do settle for not giving because they don't want to make that commitment under God. They want to get their benefit. So back to that day she understood that whatever I was doing, whoever I was doing it with, she understood that's not her. In other words, whatever it looks like or feels like, or whatever else. It's not her. Even though at the beginning of that year, I decided, okay, Lord, I'm going to try as a resolution. And I forget, it was a four year, five years ago. I wanted to start my phase back into my, being with God and having my family and doing something. I just, I knew I wanted to, but in that year and when she said that to me, and that, wasn't the only thing she said, you know? I, I never forgot it. And it, it gave me a framework. Yes, this is that's my wife, that's my wife, you know, and I just needed to the behavior and this things that needed to happen to reconcile, just need to begin to take him places. But that fact was something to build from. It was the foundation to build from. Because I remember asking during that time period, I said, I remember asking her early on, I don't mean to expose this now, but I'm going to just say it Carmela. But I asked her probably after a year after separating, I'm not sure what year it was. Maybe she remembers, but I said, do you believe that God brought us together? I asked her that. And she said, I used to, or something like that. You see, because what happens is when, when things get crazy, crazy, crazy, like our life, then you do begin to question God. Yeah. And that is why earlier I brought up a God said, do you understand? A God said always is until he says something differently. It always is. And I needed to know because that very word that I got the first word. I had to remember that I needed to work on remembering that and putting them in aligning and realigning my life back around the God said, yes. He said, yes, she's your wife, that's it, period. Yes. You were to marry her in other words.. That's who I have for you. She's the only one I have for you. Okay. Well, my life didn't add up until all that time of separating and before that and everything else. So I had to get back to that. And so that was huge. It's important to have God saids.. So Carmela, how did you not give up on Carrington? A lot of women would have just said, forget it. And so, during that three,three-year period, over three years, there was some given up and then there was some fallen back. On the Lord and leaning back into the Lord because, you know you know, keeping in mind that whole time I was not Lord restore my marriage, Lord restore my marriage. I wasn't like it as a matter of the first year separation. I was basically trying to draw closer to God to restore God back as first in my life. Because the reality is, that over the years, you're married for so long and, life and the cares of life and everything start to become first. I'd say for myself there was a stray for me away from a real tender heart and real intimacy with the Lord and seeking God, because I was so consumed with life, job, money, our son. Carrington didn't mention leading up to the issue with the son was one of many things that was going on, but that was the one that was the most devastating to us, of course. So during that time of being separated my goal was to literally draw closer to the Lord. So at all costs, I was clinging. I had everything that mattered in my life and pretty much everything that was probably, if I'm honest was first in my life, God allowed that stuff to be taken from me, my marriage, job, my son, we were so heavily involved with our ministry and our church. So even, serving in the church, like all of that stuff came to a halt. Literally, just me and God. I moved back home here to the DC area, after leaving Atlanta, I was a part of a church where I was new to the church and it was a big church. It was somewhere I could just go and worship and I wasn't a part of anything where I was given out. I needed to be ministered to. So to answer your question what made me not give up? I was too busy trying to seek to seek the Lord first. Then those days turned into months, months turned into years, and then, as I was dealing with my own hurt and going through a recovery program for the Lord to minister healing first and forgiveness in me. I didn't start to think about, really consider divorce until later in that year, 2016, when he was saying the Lord was starting to redirect his mind back to towards his family and his marriage. So in that year, I really made a commitment to the Lord that Lord, okay, you know, all this time has passed if you want, I've never felt a release. And I was like, if it's, if it's okay, a release to get a divorce, because I was adamant that just like, I got a word from God to marry him. I felt like I needed to get a real sense and word from the Lord that I was released and I could get a divorce. Number one, I never got that. And then number two, I said, well, okay, I'm going to commit to, like, I didn't in our marriage during, especially during those challenging years, when things started getting tough, I got away from praying for him, like daily praying for him. And so I said, okay, Lord, what I'm going to do is commit to every day, praying for him, like literally, but you know, of course that took some time to do so. I said, I'm going to pray for him, you know, and prayed it. You get you a, literally give me a word as to what you're going to do in this marriage. Because yeah, what was it like when you reconnected? I'm sure it wasn't like, Oh, it's for back together. It's all happy. Well, you know what? I remember one thing that she said to me, this is, this is something that, that it made me cry. And because you can imagine, you can only imagine the bitterness that she would have had toward me and all that comes with that and all the insecurities, everything else that comes with it. And so she did complete a recovery program. I do want to put a plug for recovery. I do believe that we do need to, when we get so far off, you know, we do have to go back to the, the foundation, foundational principles and scriptures. And so she did complete and, you know, get a part of a recovery program to, you know, begin doing inventory, to figure out, you know, that's part of her way to give back to God for herself. And so, in doing that and completing that program and all that, and then I'll never forget just her attitude toward me. I could see that it was different, but it was these words right here that really made me cry, just broke me down and was, she said aren't I different aren't I different now. And the reason why that broke me down is because again, the backdrop of all the bitterness and the, you know, and just felt like trash, I felt like trash. I felt like I felt like trash, you know? And, and that, that plagued me for all the whole time and to see her smile and to see her. You know, look, health looking, inwardly healthy. I could tell that she had been with God again, and that he fulfilled his part and refilling her enough so that she could be available to even entertain whether we should be. And she went through all of that in private. The key about this getting back together, and again, I just want to say this right now, even at this point in this, this is not a just marriage talk. This is not self-help type of talk. You see, I'm, I'm hoping that people can hear that God was at the beginning of it. And specifically he had to appear he had to come to me first in that way. It's very, very important that individually we have relationship with God. And that's the main thing that qualifies us to be able to have other relationships, including marriage. I can't imagine a marriage without God in the middle. Then where in the world do you get your cues from? If there's no God said at all, if there's nothing that's binding you, if you can do anything you want to, and, and, you know, it was based upon just romance. That's not enough, it's not enough. And so having said that, you know that the thing that brought us together and really sealed it for me was that she asked me aren't I different just that one little phrase, my mind played back all the way back to before when I treat her like all the way, like trash, all the way forward up into coming here and seeing the smile on her face again, I was in tears because I saw that. Yes, you're different. You're different because you've been with God. That was obvious to me, not because you told me that you were, because I can see that you were, there were things in your life and I guess that you know, that I could see. And so that was the thing. And so what that did for me, Was it made me want to look. So I said, okay, well, she, we did a recovery program not long after we got here. And yes, it was kind of difficult. I mean, you're talking about, I mean, I haven't been, you know, we haven't been around each other for four years, almost three and a half years. So we had to kind of, you know, learn how to do that, but we still knew, you know, fun. And we know we had to relearn a lot of things, but one of the things that we did right away as a practical step, a spiritually practical step was to get me involved in recovery program because I need to go back and look and figure out. Cause because I took on again, I said PTSD, fear, trust issues, anxiety. I mean, depression. I mean, I took on a lot of stuff resulting from all of this trauma in my life and I never had it before that, that I knew of. I mean, I was quite confident, probably too much, you know, but I go from that to being just a complete weakling in every area. And and didn't care about what anybody thought about it. And so I get into recovery committed for a year, looked at my stuff and dealt with it and you know, so much. So our first anniversary we're back together again. Yeah. You know, you would think that we would just, yeah, we're going to go to Aruba. We gotta, we gotta get out of here. We got a lot of making up to do. Guess what we did at, we spent our anniversary in a recovery program, recovery retreat recovery retreat, with a bunch of people talking about their issues, their hurts, all their hurts habits and hangups came to light. You know, they happen to have a bed for us to stay together, but everybody else was there because there was look at this. Now this is sweet. She did the recovery program with me. She didn't have to do that. She did it with me again for a year commitment. Wow. Yeah. With me, she didn't want me doing that by myself and going and talking about problems, especially as a man sitting around in circles and dealing with your stuff for two hours in depth, you know, and homework. And like, you're constantly thinking about who hurts you, what, in fact that it had on your life and who you hurt, who you hurt all this other stuff. So, anyway, that's my plug for that, but that was really very, yeah. Touched by a feeling. I don't need my feeling. I'm sorry. I need to go forward. I'm a man. Right. We women love to deal with that. Yeah. So what, what advice would you give people going into marriage after all you've been through? Okay. So I would start by first of all you know, it, you have to have a, God said just like Carrington has said so many times tonight. You have to have a sense in your gut that knowing that this is a person that the Lord has called you ordained for you to walk out this life together and for what purpose, that's the first part of it. That's the advice I would give. And then second, you have to go into it with a heart to give and to serve and to not be selfish, but to put your brother or your sister before yourself. That's so good. I just got a picture of a heart with give in the middle. Like nobody thinks of love is like giving. I've heard Carrington say that before, too. You only think about the receiving. Yeah. Yeah. I would agree with those, you know, having a God said and the reason why is because you have to have something, I mean, you think about it. I mean, think about all the insecurities of life at a job, every relationship there's always a level of risk, right? You don't know which day somebody might hurt you. Well, to know that God won't, I'll be honest. Even as a man, I need that. I need to know he will not hurt me. And so those God's saids are words that I can recall back to myself and also to him, God, Hey, remember you said this. So then when something comes up, because the idea is that when challenges come up, that's when those are most useful. Hold on God, because again, if you establish that you have a, God said it, if you can say, beyond a shadow of a doubt, I have a God said it because that's not the only one I've gotten before, we should be getting those, throughout our life. Having a God said is a foundational, piece that's needed to remember in times of conflict, the same way that I asked her, do you believe that God brought us together? So I would say that having a relationship with God. Overall is most important. My conclusion I was thinking of writing a book about all this stuff, and I remember one of the major pieces or chapters I wanted to say was, you need to divorce everybody in your life, marry God, and then go back and marry the people in your life. Meaning whoever they are in your life. And because if you love God, then you love people. Well, that's not just a fact. It's also a qualitative fact to the degree that you love God is to the degree that you love people. You know, there's no way to say he's. He says this, there's no way you can say that you love God and you hate your brother. Well, the converse is also true to the degree that you love God to do what you would love your brother. So when you find yourself not loving your brother, you have to admit something as off. I see a lot of people who are very spiritual who want all the advanced things of God, but their relationships, horrible. I mean, starting with the people closest to them, they get the worst part of you. So I I'm really big into that. So anyway, but just having a God said, having a relationship back with God, and then really, almost the same as she said before, and this is, this is a huge 28 years I've realized this almost every day. Now my life, without her in it, I almost know what that look would look like. And it would be trashy. It would be horrible because, there are things that she supplies to me that I need. Just by who she is that I can't even communicate good enough. I need her the way she looks at life to, to be, you know, cause we're, we're each other's, you know, we're, we're each other's half, right. We're one. You have passion and romance with God, then you will have passionate romance everywhere else. And the things that most people deal with won't be an issue. So I have a heart for that, but before the man, I really encouraged being a man. You know who again, that strong accountability, just until you get started until you find yourself flowing, you gotta identify those motives and be prepared to give. Whenever you first read it first Corinthians 13, I always say, this is my last piece. When you read that scripture is it sounded like as beautiful, romantic love. But if you really look at it again, read it again. It's really con it's really first Corinthians 13, the whole chapter, and that's the love chapter. And when you look at it, that scripture is about conflict based love. It's not, it's not this romance that we see in the romantic comedy that we're going to watch probably after this podcastright Carmela. It's not that it's, it's more about devotion. And I think that there's a sobriety that comes with that because it's easy to have drunk love, drunk with love. You know, that's what most of us want. We want, we all want to be swept, even men, we want to be swept, but there's a part where you do it soberly, you know, and I think there's a, a sobriety that comes with a devotion to God, and that same sobriety should be kept throughout your marriage, you know? And I think then it'll flow and you know, and, and it's just, anyway, that's just, that's what I get because I'm, I'm very fortunate to have a wife and I encourage everybody to live in inside out life. And I'm, I'm big on talking about that because it's, I've seen what happens if you do life outside in externals first, self-help talk, doing the outward, fix everything. So people don't people think that you're better than you think they are. I'm big on living in an inside out life before God. And my encouragement is that people do that in prayer. Don't boy don't ever go into a marriage without prayer out hearing this story. Prayer has been like everything, right? My wife's prayer for me while separated my wife's prayer for me before we got together, my prayer to God, even to get saved at all. I asked him a question. I said, God, I'm living in the real world out here. Right. I'm ready to hustle and do what needs to be done to live a successful life. And, but if this faith world Carmela's talking about, cause that's what happened to me. If that's more real than the world, I'm planning on living. When I get, 25, 30 an older, then I need you to tell me now. So I don't waste my time. That was my first prayer that I ever remember, really praying to God. And he answered me with presence, his presence, and it changed me. And so you have prayer there, you have prayer, all the way throughout prayer to prayer together. Prayer. I, I I'd say part of the challenges that we had in our family kind of fallen apart when the bottom fell out, being so consumed with all of the stuff that was happening in life, forgetting to grab each other's hands and pray together. Like really pray stuff through. No, that that would have, I believe made a difference and it has made a difference with us coming back together, and choosing to pray together instead of trying to figure out life and in our own wisdom and in our own strength, good word in such good way to end that you ended up learning that lesson, that it's better to pray together and not forget to pray together. Yeah. You have your own time alone with the Lord and praying together, even prayer is the glue that will keep your marriage together. Yeah. It's, it's, it's really huge. Now you finished Camille, but it, I would say this prayer is everything. It is hard to keep ought against somebody else and to be salty to, or somebody that you're praying for. There should be phases in prayer. Initially really take you to where you pray out of your heart and by doing so there's no way you can continually pray out of your heart and keep a bad attitude towards somebody, even if they're the ones wrong. So prayer can you even change your own heart by your devotion to God? When you say God, I, you know, it'd be honest. I don't like this person right now, but I'm going to commit to pray for them until you do something in them. And I promise you something will happen in you that will make your prayer more effective. And then change will just be overnight, seemingly overnight. It may take a while. It may take years for her. It took years to pray for me years. You know, we're praying for our son right now. We've seen some, some signs, but we still been praying, but we've made out of this, you know, in closing we've made prayer, our main thing. Now that's our favorite thing. I mean, that's, that's the favorite part of, for me service, my wife leads worship, which is a way to pray, you know? I think prayer is everything, you know, she's even by her own life, I don't have to go to Jesus or Paul or anybody else. I can go to the book of Carmela and see that her prayers for me have changed, have changed me. God's use her prayers to change me. They sure have. We sure have some amazing, so Just before we go. I just want to say one of the things that you said Carrington and I think is so beautiful. Is in one of your sermons, or a couple of times, I've heard you publicly commit to Carmela that going forward, you intend to be the best husband ever. And I just love that. Yeah. Yeah. I, I, what I found and that's something that I said earlier, I Lord knows I've got work to do, but what I find is is that when we have a job, do you realize everywhere else we are. We intend for our performance to be the best, so much so that when it comes to performance times, I remember performing so well, especially after getting a not perfect score, like 4.5 out of five in my mind, I was like, hold on. What was like, where's that 0.5 go? What, what happened here? You know, I'm just like that. But most of us are like that somewhere where I find is most of us are willing to be measured. Everywhere else, but inside of our own home, true, you know, for money, we'll, we'll give our dedication for, you know, a sense of being doing good. We'll give this and that and we'll do these things, you know, but I think that for me it proved to me, to myself that I was serious about becoming the best husband in the world is what I said to her. I wanted to do that, when I said to her, because I wanted her to help me be accountable because my seriousness about that was under God, not just her. So I use her to help me to be accountable. And I've also said the same thing to my son. And that's, that's very important. I think that it shows that we're serious when we say we want to be the best, or we, we say we want to have the best in this area, whatever it is, overall or specific areas, we invite the accountability, we don't, we don't take, I don't take her criticisms as hard as, as I would if I didn't have that as a goal, because you will not be the best without any pressure you just won't be. I just think if, if that's the goal than you, then you invite it and you, you put the work in and you know, it's not always comfortable, but, that's what my heart and I'm glad you brought that up. I got a lot of work to do and I'll keep working on it. Well, I just wanted to share in case anybody else out there wants to take it. I think it's amazing. And I just appreciate you guys so much for taking your time. It's been wonderful. And I really appreciate you guys and look forward to seeing you again tomorrow probably, but you guys enjoy your evening and I just thank you so much and I appreciate it. I'm going to pray a prayer over this ministry. This is a ministry Camille, and I know it's a podcast, but this is a ministry. And I believe that God is ordained it. And I believe that just like our marriage we emphasize the kingdom of God and eternity and all that. And that's wonderful. You know, I am aiming for it. We're all aiming for it, but there's a real kingdom of darkness that's working against that. And we didn't really highlight that enough as relates to our marital issues. But it's been really clear so much so that I remember one time being in the car with just a funky situation. I don't remember what it was. It was so funky that the devil like went overboard. And I remember looking at, we looked at each other like, wait a minute where you see what's going on here. And we kind of ended up laughing. Like we call this guy out, you know, we called him out. And I believe that that same kingdom may be trying to work against this. The enemy wants these marriages to, to fail, or he wants you, you know, people to never get married again or, or to have bad marriages if they marry again, which I believe is, you know, the Lord, the Lord allows divorce. You know, and he allows, that, and I believe that there is, I have a heart for people who, who do want to get married again, but the enemy is really, really, really at work. And so I, I want to pray over this ministry because I believe that this could evolve into a book and a bunch of other stuff. And I want to pray over this, so father, we just thank you tonight. God, thank you for this ministry. Well, we thank you father for Lord. Just, just what Camille has started, I believe is your heart Lord to cause her to put this together, to go through the work of, of doing what it takes to get it up and running, to troubleshoot, to do all this, but to keep her face before you guys fixed like a Flint God, so that she would perform that what you've called to do. I thank you God, for her heart. I thank you for her availability. I thank you for her own, even for her own story. Well, I pray that one day somebody gets to interview her and her story. I thank you father, that I'd be willing to do it, but I thank you father for her. I thank you for Lord, her willingness, God to face down everything she's faced in her life got everything that she's seen before her every example that has been good. Every example that has been, that has been bad. I thank you, God, that what you're forming in her is something God that you can trust. She's somebody you can trust God with stewarding over Lord, a platform and a ministry, a ministry that people can look to to see how to live single successfully in God, how to live. With someone else in marriage under God, either way that the common denominator is still you. So I thank you father for bringing that out. I thank you for, for protecting this ministry. I thank you for the people that will listen, tenderize their hearts. Now God, would you do it, everybody. Who's confused about the priorities of life and they've gotten into marriages or relationships that they're, that they're wondering, how did I get here? They're not good. They don't feel like they're fulfilled. Well, we know Goodwill that, that lack of fulfillment, that lack of knowing that that the favor of God is there is because it may not be. So I thank you, father for the heart of the people that are listening that are impacted that want to get it right. In Jesus name called them to want to be in alignment with you. I pray God that you will bring a freshness over them in Jesus name, Lord, you romance me at times. I pray God that you would continue to do that God out there, that everything people are looking for, that they can find in God, everything that they think that needs to be satisfied in by the world. God, you can do a satisfaction and an infilling that would, that would never go away. It wouldn't desire anything ever like that again. So I pray God that you would Lord just, just fill every place in every heart of every person listening. Every person in their future listens every person. If she writes a book or whatever else that comes out in the forming a whole organization. I pray right now over that in Jesus' name, God, we declare that you are the author of this and that the enemy as the only author of confusion. We thank you, God, that you're the God of clarity. Thank you for just demystifying everything about relationships in marriage and all this stuff. God, that, that we know really, really simply, if we give ourselves to you, then we qualify Lord to handle more with anybody else on earth. So we thank you father, as we love you. We love people in Jesus name. Amen. I receive it. Thank you so much, man. All right. All right, Camille, have a great night. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Same to you. Thank you. All right, bye.